NOVEMBER 27, 2012/DECEMBER 10, 2013

Vassula Ryden

EWTN – Eternal Word Television Network, a Catholic Channel

1. Series Name: Mother Angelica Live

Pg. Name: Visionaries, Mystics and Stigmatists

Guest: Bob and Penny Lord

Date produced: November 1^st 1995

http://web.archive.org/web/20100413144408/http://www.infovassula.ch/tligangelicalivepenny.htm:

Added on September 9, 2004 – Audio file added on March 16, 2005 by Maria Laura Pio

WARNING: the following transcription is not official. It was made in an amateur way by a person who was viewing the program. For more information, please read: www.mypage.bluewin.ch/cafarus/tligangelica.htm. I therefore recommend hearing the audio file.

Audio File available: click here

Mother Angelica: I got a Notification from the Holy
See* today and the Notification is from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Some of you will be happy and some of you not happy, some of you very angry. But I must tell you what the Congregation said and from then on you have to take it into your heart and think about it huh?

“Many bishops and priests, religious and lay people sought an authoritative judgement from the Congregation of Faith, on the activities of Mrs. Vassula Ryden, a Greek Orthodox who resides in Switzerland.

A calm attentive examination of the entire questions was undertaken by the Congregation to test the spirit.

There are a number of basic elements that must be considered:

The way in which these alleged revelations have occurred

The ambiguous language used, in speaking of the Trinity

That the Antichrist will prevail in the Church

That the glorious intervention which will be initiated on earth, an era of peace that looks very much like Millennialism

A pan-Christian Community contrary to Catholic doctrine

The habitually sharing in the Sacraments of the Catholic Church by Vassula although she is not Catholic

Putting herself up as an ecclesiastic of jurisdiction over canonical norms and creating an ecumenical disorder“

Now, that’s been done, I feel you need to examine yourself. And we were talking this morning, a sister and I, why does everybody run to every visionary real and not real in the world?

My personal opinion I am going to give it to you (laugh). I never held one back yet (laugh). My personal opinion is, that, we are not being fed the Truth, catechetically, theologically, philosophically or any other “ically” you can find.

(umh) When people don’t know the Truth, or they’re confused in regard to the Truth, meaning other things that are presented to them, instead of Truth. When the Catechism taught is not authentic, is not really Catholic. When your church is devoid of anything devotional. We’re people, we are human being and we feel and we are inspired by what we see, we’re inspired by our senses. When all that is lacking and slowly whatever remains being taken away, the people are going to go to real or imaginary visionaries, aesthetics, mystics and so forth.

Why? (sigh) you don’t get it in one place, you’re going to go to another and that is one of the sad things in today’s society. We, we need to be fed not with the imaginary, not with half Truth, or errors, we need to be fed with the Truth and the beauty, the awesome beauty of Our Church, her spiritual and her Saints…

*http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfrydn1.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20100413170651/http://www.infovassula.ch/tligangelicalivepacwa.htm

Added on September 9, 2004 by Maria Laura Pio

WARNING: the following transcription is not official. It was made in an amateur way by a person who was viewing the program. For more information, please read: www.mypage.bluewin.ch/cafarus/tligangelica.htm . We have added the footnotes with the references to the messages cited by Fr. Pacwa.

Mother Angelica: Not too long ago Bob and Penny Lord were with us and I read to you a Document from the Holy See about Vassula, the seer that is not approved. And I myself mentioned the Poem of the Man-God. Now we’ve got all kind of phone calls, letters, some inquiring because they want the truth, some very angry but we have to give the Truth.

See your soul and your future is at stake. We are here to give you the Truth. You don’t have to accept it, but it’s our job to tell you if there is a danger anywhere.

So I want to introduce you a good friend, a mutual friend, yours and mine, Fr. Mitch Pacwa. We’re going to discuss the situation and we’re open for phone calls. Let’s us welcome Fr. Mitch Pacwa.

Fr.: Thank you Mother. It’s so good to be here.

M.A: Okay Fr., there are an enormous amount of seers around. And today with a good example, I think of the simplicity of Our Lady and in getting appearing in such a simple Motherly way through Juan Diego. And even when his uncle was sick, and he went to get, the you know, the priest for him, he was kind [?] Our Lady, She caught up with him.

Tell us about a “real vision”.

Fr.: One of the issues of the “real vision” is that, they have an effect on a number of different levels. And we have to pay attention through them, and if God,

M.A: Well what level?

Fr.: For instance, there is the effect that a vision had on the person who is the visionary. Juan Diego now is blessed. Bernadette is a Saint. Now we look at how it changed their lives.

M.A: If you would say the effect on both Seers and Saints?

Fr.: Sure. That’s when there is vision we see at least 3 different types of effects. One is the Seer, visionary has a growth of holiness, like St. Bernadette, Juan Diego now blessed and many others through the centuries who became holier personally.

Secondly you also see, and some of this the Church has to look at right away, is the “messages of the vision”, true? Is it in keeping with what we know from Scripture and the teaching of the Church? And we judge the vision by the norm of the Church and the Bible. And that the Lord does regularly reveal to us, He will not contradict with new visions, new revelations, they go against the Bible or the teaching of the Council.

The third level is the fruits that we look for, the effect and this one that we can’t go through necessarily first. We have to wait and see, and know what that fruit is in the long term.

For instance, so many time people would have an immediate conversion, a change right away and then down the line, fall away. Or a movement can look good at the start and then later on, not be so good.

A classic example of how good fruit is showing is what happened at Guadalupe. That 30 some millions people became Catholics as a result, through the centuries now 400 years.

People have had tremendous conversions and a constant call to love the Blessed Mother and to love Christ. That’s good fruit in the long run.

M.A: But the Seer is almost forgotten at that point

Fr.: Right, right. Now the same thing has to apply to any other vision. Now people can say that there is good fruit, and so often that is one of my concerns; people say this vision is having good fruits because people are converting and so on. But we all have to ask the question to what are they converting?
Are they converting to the True faith? Are they converting to attraction to the Visionary? Are they converting to attraction to a movement? Or is it True faith in Christ?

Know these, and the Church has an obligation to discern. Discernment is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit according to 1 Corinthians, chapter12. And the main job of discernment comes from the Church, not from the Visionaries. Visionaries do not discern their own visions ultimately. They have to, that’s what St. Paul said, is not up to the prophets themselves or herself. Leave it to the Church decision, based on its own norm of the Magisterium, that is the deposit of faith we have received in the Scripture in tradition. So these are some of the things we have to pay attention to.

And in regard to someone like Vassula Ryden and Maria Valtorta, the Church has given consistent and regular decisions. In the case of Valtorta and recently for Vassula, saying that there are problems in what they have written. And that their claims to be directly from Christ; in case of both ladies, cannot be substantiated by the Church. Now you see in both, Vassula claims when she writes Christ moves her hand and in some way or other He is the author of these books that she’d written. And Valtorta called herself the “secretary” of Jesus and Mary, and that she is called “little John”, and she ascribed exactly what they told her. Now, that is a very heavy claim! A very heavy claim!

Now the Church never even said that is exactly how the Bible was written. The Church hadn’t, you know, we did never say the Holy Spirit grabbed hold of the hand and wrote, know it’s inspirational. How God inspires the Church hasn’t made specific. We just know that the Holy Spirit is the author of the Scripture and the primary author, and the secondary the human author. How and exactly it happened, the Evangelists didn’t tell us, the other, St. Paul; it’s up to God and them.

These two said that they are actually “secretaries” writing in the case of Valtorta, writing in the case of Vassula. Given that, we have to submit what they say to the norm of the Church, okay? And the Church said “No” in both cases.

And with that, I think, comes a certain amount of obedience that we have to submit to. Even if we like them. Whether we like them or not is really irrelevant because I get concerned about people who said that “well, I find it helpful to me so I am going to use it”. That is just as disobedient as the person who say “well I feel like having a certain amount of dancing at the altar.” The Church doesn’t approve it, but I do, so I am going to do that. Or I feel like having reading from Jablio Shoblank (?) instead of reading the Bible, because I find it meaningful. We don’t make those decisions about what we do in the liturgy and of what we believe, just on personal opinion.

M.A: What are some of the errors father, I mean the people they who write to us, they are heated about it.

Fr.: Absolutely they did the same thing to me

M.A: And even when you give some of these, but I think there are very serious errors in both.

Fr.: In the Maria Valtorta books, the errors I think are not as serious as in Vassula. But serious nonetheless… (pertaining to Valtorta)

With Vassula there is another kind of problem. I got some quotes. Listen to this quote: “I love you Father beyond words” and then the Father responds: “I love you daughter my suffering I will make you feel when My crucifixion come nearer I will come to you leaving my nail crown thorns I will leave you My cross sharing with me my suffering.”

This is supposed to be the Father; the Father did not die on the cross. God the Son became Incarnated. He died on the cross. Now there is an old heresy called “patripassianism” that means the Father suffered and was condemned, is an error. Now maybe it doesn’t mean God the Father here, but it’s very unclear and that’s what the Vatican has said about in the L’Osservatore Romano. Some of the things she said are very unclear. They are very unclear. This is an example of what is unclear, do you mean the Father is suffering or you call Jesus the Father? Now that is not good either

M.A: No,

Fr.: Now as a matter of fact there are a number of other things. About Jesus, where He says for instance, “I am the Spirit of Truth who speaks”, wait a minute, I thought that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, that is what Jesus called Him in the Gospel of St. John. That is in Volume 2 page 10, “I am the Spirit of love” all right, and then here Jesus says “anyone who rejects the work of My Holy Spirit is rejecting Me for the Holy Spirit and I are One and the same.” Now that’s not quite right! That is not right at all! Jesus goes on to say “remember that I am Spirit and all that I have I share with you, your spirit, you and I are One linking the union of love”. What does she mean Jesus, the Spirit? You know, I don’t know, it’s vague to me and confusing because Jesus is God Incarnated and He still has a body, the glorified the resurrected body since His resurrection from the dead, but He still has a body. He’s not Spirit, only Spirit now. He has a spirit, He has a human spirit, of course He is God, He is Spirit and divine, but it’s not clear.

And then, there are, this is some of the oddest things where she said in Volume 3 page 98 “I am the Holy Trinity all in One. I am the Spirit of grace”. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit all in One, Jesus is the second person of the Holy Trinity. There are other places where she talked about the Father where Jesus said that “the Father and I are One and the same”. That is not correct! First of all, St. John Gospel chapter 14 said “The Father and I are One” and the Father, for instance, St. A (?) made a very important comment on what Jesus said “the Father and I are One, One in being”. Notice that Jesus doesn’t say in the Gospel “the Father and I are One and the same” because if He said “the Father and I are One and the same” that would mean He is the Father, but Jesus in the books by Vassula say “know the Father and I am One and the same”. That is exactly what had been rejected by the Fathers, by Pope Damasus the 1^st, whose feast we just celebrated a couple of days ago (early December) and also by the Council, there is the Council of Florence. It’s because of that the incorrect formula about the Trinity that the Church has problem with Vassula. I’ve written about this in a number of places. I did serious articles on it, for a Catholic print circle about 2 or 3 years ago. Saying all, 2 years ago. Can I tell you a story about what happened with that?

M.A: Yeah, yeah,

Fr.: What happened was I wrote all this down. I sent a copy to Vassula’s spiritual director by fax. And a few days later, in May, a couple of years ago, I got a fax back saying that I am going to be in big trouble.

Vassula talked to God the Father for 7 hours about this, and something bad is going to happen to me and she is going to make it known and every one is going to blame me. And at the end, the last line of the letter said “you are destined for bigger and better things”, don’t publish this letter, and you’ll get them.

M.A: Oh? What is that, a fortune-teller?

Fr.: No, it sounds like the Mafia to me, (laugh) but then I am from Chicago, I don’t know. But you know, it, and I said I can’t stop publishing because of those words.

M.A:
If you were wrong, it wouldn’t take the Father 7 hours to tell her.

Fr.: No, it’s right, exactly. And I submit my article to the censors of the Father Jesuit, The Jesuit censor for them to look at. So, I published it and then, sometimes after that, I don’t know who it was, who thought of it, but they sent a letter to my father general and they said, accusing me of two things: besides being all wrong, I don’t understand her.

I sent a letter, I asked her to clarify, because that what I said in the letter clarify the things or I will publish it. Because I am concerned about the errors here or maybe they are not errors, I wanted to know, giving an explanation

M.A: Father, please, don’t you fall for it

Fr.: Well, I want to see what she meant. You know, give her a chance, that’s in charity, we should do that. But what they said is I never contacted them before I published the articles. And that I was trying to destroy the Orthodox and Catholic Unity. And that is the opposite. As a matter of fact, the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in North and South America asked for a copy of this because they were thinking about condemning her. And I did not send it to them. I am sure I could get permission from the Father General. And so, that is a sure step. I sent him a fax. And the fax didn’t have a date on it but the fax machine did date it. And I sent a letter to them, four months in advance. And so they weren’t corrected. I had sent them and I sent them a copy to let them, you know, to let them express their objection. And they chose not to. And at least not to explain to my satisfaction, and so I would not stop, one of the thing Our Lord said that anybody is called to be a shepherd in the Church, is that you can’t run away from wolves and that you just don’t do it for hire. You make sure to the best of your ability that the sheep are going to be fed well and for the Truth.

M.A: Right,

Fr.: And that’s my role and I would, I had to write it. Father General, of course, exonerated me. And when Cardinal Ratzinger, the thing from Cardinal Ratzinger came out, there is a definitely the same concern as I have. For instance, when she goes to communion. Not only in the Catholic and the Orthodox Church but the Episcopalian Church too. See, she receives communion in all three according to her own books. Now that’s not right!

M.A: No,

Fr.: No, there are certain situations in which the Orthodox can receive communion with us because they share the same faith. But not the Episcopalian, we don’t have an agreement on the Eucharist with them. But we do with the Orthodox. So that is not quite right to do that. And so I objected that to the Vatican, and the same thing about the Christology and the confusion of the Trinity, the exactly same issue. We have to know what the New Testament teaches about Christ. And that’s what we should expect from any visionaries. Jesus will not contradict Himself. He will not undo what is written in the Gospels. And therefore, we have to have either her explaining away the confusions, or submit totally, and this is what she should do, I think and for all of us not just, Vassula or Valtorta, I, you, all of us must submit to what the Truth have been revealed by Christ through His Church.

M.A: I think the reason for all this is father; people are starving, starving for the Truth and for spirituality.

Fr.: yes, yes,

M.A: And they get all this mumbo jumbo, all this, the liberals give everywhere. I think that what make people rush to these places because they don’t know.

Fr.: … They hear this stuff and then they say well, now, it’s up to us to talk, and this is one of the things I recommend that somebody like Valtorta or Vassula would want a personal relationship with Christ. They want to know Christ, they want to love Christ, they want to devote their hearts, their love. Vassula speaks beautifully well, not always correctly but she speaks, she desires to love the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Great, I love that too, that’s good. We should seek a personal relationship with Christ.

M.A: See we have to have the Truth with all of that

Fr.: Exactly, exactly. That’s the thing, the desire for a personal union and a personal love is important. But like any love if you love your children strongly and personally, but you let them do whatever they want as deep as you love, they still come up spoiled. And if you love Jesus with all the warmth and sometimes, gosh, and all this, but if it is not the real Jesus, you’re asking for trouble, spiritually.
M.A: Yeah,

Fr.: We have to know the real Jesus Christ not some imitation, not something that falls short of the real Jesus Christ.

Footnotes

(1) Message dated April 7/8, 1987.

(2) Message dated October 26, 1987.

(3) Message dated October 11, 1988.

(4) Message dated September 24, 1988.

(5) Message dated July 28, 1989.

(6) Messages dated January 17, 1989 and February 15/17, 1989.

What is the official Church stand on Vassula Ryden?

http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=336580&Pg=&Pgnu=&recnu

Q: I am most confused. Will somebody please tell us, does the statement made by the [Congregation for the] Doctrine of the Faith on Mrs. Vassula Ryden still stand. If so why is it being ignored? Why are we being told that the statements supposedly made by the Vatican are really false? The True Life in God tell us that the Holy Father has blessed Vassula and her writings. Does this mean we have now to believe in Mrs. Ryden and can promote her in our Church!!!!! – J.C.SCOTT Kate, 11/16/2001

A: On May 10, 1994, Edward Idris Cardinal Cassidy, Head of the Sacred Congregation for the Promotion of Christian Unity in Rome [Pontificium Consulium Ad Christianorum Unitatem Fovendam] wrote regarding Vassula:

“No one should take seriously any claim on the part of this lady to have an ecumenical mission … I am amazed that all over the world our Church authorities are opening their doors to this lady … The question of a member of an Orthodox Church being admitted to Communion in our Church is governed by Canon Law…”

He went on to say that the “competent Dicastery for matters concerning private revelations is the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, I am sending on to that office a copy of your letter and of the documentation forwarded therewith.”

This is the statement of:

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has received various questions about the value and authority of its Notification of 6 October 1995, published in (L’Osservatore Romano on Monday/Tuesday, 23/24 October 1995, p.12), regarding the writings and messages of Mrs. Vassula Ryden attributed to alleged revelations and disseminated in Catholic circles throughout the world.

In this regard, the Congregation wishes to state:

The Notification addressed to the Pastors and faithful of the Catholic Church retains all its force. It was approved by the competent authorities and will be published in Acta Apostolicae Sedis, the official organ of the Holy See, with the signatures of the Prefect and the Secretary of the Congregation.

Regarding the reports circulated by some news media concerning a restrictive interpretation of this Notification, given by His Eminence the Cardinal Prefect in a private conversation with a group of people to whom he granted an audience in Guadalajara, Mexico, on 10 May 1996, the same Cardinal Prefect wishes to state: as he said, the faithful are not to regard the messages of Vassula Ryden as divine revelations, but only as her personal meditations; these meditations, as the Notification explained, include, along with positive aspects, elements that are negative in the light of Catholic doctrine; therefore, Pastors and the faithful are asked to exercise serious spiritual discernment in this matter and to preserve the purity of the faith, morals and spiritual life, not be relying on alleged revelations but by following the revealed Word of God and the directives of the Church’s Magisterium.

These words stand on their own weight. The Church has never issued a statement rescinding any of the above content. Those who ignore the statement do so for some reason other than proper observance to the legitimate authority in the Church. –Bill Bilton, 11/16/2001

Diocesan Administrator withdraws permission for Greek Orthodox ‘seer’ (Mrs Vassula Ryden) to speak to Catholics here [Singapore]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/catholicact/message/935
EXTRACT

Posted By Benedict Tang, February 24, 2001

NOTIFICATION ON VASSULA RYDEN (6 October 1995) Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfrydn1.htm
PRESS RELEASE : VASSULA RYDEN NOTIFICATION (Dec 1996) Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfrydn2.htm
PUERTO RICAN BISHOPS WARN AGAINST VASSULA’S FALSE ECUMENISM
by Fr. Brian Harrison, O.S.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/newage/vassula.txt

Vassula Ryden/True Life in God – Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/cdfrydn.htm

The following documents of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith have been issued on the subject of the writings and activities of Vassula Ryden, a Greek Orthodox, and author of True Life in God.

Notification (6 October 1995)  Questions the teaching  contained in her writings, instructs bishops not to permit dissemination of her ideas, and cautions the faithful not to regard the writings as being from God.

Press Release (December 1996) Re-asserts the authority of the Notification, following certain interpretations attributed to Cardinal Ratzinger by Mrs. Ryden’s followers. Also contains a useful general statement regarding the duty of the Church’s Pastors about the dissemination of alleged private revelations.

Letter to Presidents of  [certain] Bishops Conferences (10 July 2004) Informs the presidents of episcopal conferences, where the True Life in God movement is active, about clarifications of her writings published in True Life in God, vol. 10. It calls on Catholics “to follow the dispositions of the Diocesan Bishops” with regard to participation in her ecumenical prayer gatherings (a change from the absolute prohibition of the 1995 Notification). Nothing in this letter, however, indicates a modification of the statement in the 1995 Notification suggesting that the writings are “merely the result of private meditations.”

Letter to Presidents of Episcopal Conferences (25 January 2007)
Reaffirms the validity of the doctrinal judgments of the 1995 Notification, affirms that her writings, which are not to be considered divine revelations, must be read within the context of the clarifications which she made to the Congregation in 2004, and notes that Catholic participation in the prayer groups organized by the True Life in God movement are “inappropriate.”

All above documents are reproduced in other Vassula-related articles at this ministry’s web site -Michael

Mother Angelica (EWTN) and the True Life in God messages

http://web.archive.org/web/20100505070837/http://www.infovassula.ch/tligangelica.htm

By Maria Laura Pio, added on September 9, 2004

Catholics around the world are generally familiar with Mother Angelica’s Catholic TV network EWTN. Since the publication of the 1995 Notification, EWTN has warned about the TLIG writings and contributed greatly to make the Notification known, understood and respected.

I was recently sent a transcription of two 1995 programs of “Mother Angelica Live”, in which TLIG was discussed. In the November program, Mother Angelica explains the content of the Notification. In the December program, Mother Angelica’s guest is the renowned theologian Fr. Mitch Pacwa, S.J., Ph.D., familiar to most through his EWTN specials. He is also a professor, author, retreat and pilgrimage leader. His first book, “Catholics in the New Age”, was published in 1992. Since then, he has taught on the subject around the world. He currently teaches theology at the University of Dallas (USA).

In the program, Fr. Pacwa explains some of the mistakes contained in the messages, particularly the confusions regarding the Persons of the Holy Trinity, with the corresponding citations. He also shares a a personal experience he had with Vassula and her spiritual director when publishing some of his objections regarding the messages. Intimidating techniques were used in order to try to obtain his silence. Unfortunately, this kind of behavior is not an exception within TLIG (see www.mypage.bluewin.ch/cafarus/tligmortalsin.htm).

The program transcriptions were made in an amateur way by a person whose mother tongue is not English. I propose here the texts as they were forwarded to me (only minimum editing has been done). Although some parts may be difficult to understand, it is nevertheless easy to grasp the main points:

Mother Angelica Live, December 1995 – Guest: Fr. Mitch Pacwa

Mother Angelica Live, November 1995 – Guests: Bob and Penny Lord – Audio File available here.

See

VASSULA RYDEN-PROBLEMS WITH ROME BUT WELCOME IN INDIA

http://ephesians-511.net/docs/VASSULA_RYDEN-PROBLEMS_WITH_ROME_BUT_WELCOME_IN_INDIA.doc

VASSULA RYDEN-THE REASONS FOR THE CHURCH’S NEGATIVE REACTION

http://ephesians-511.net/docs/VASSULA_RYDEN-THE_REASONS_FOR_THE_CHURCHS_NEGATIVE_REACTION.doc

VASSULA RYDEN-FR MITCH PACWA

http://ephesians-511.net/docs/VASSULA_RYDEN-FR_MITCH_PACWA.doc

VASSULA RYDEN-MARK WATERINCKX

http://ephesians-511.net/docs/VASSULA_RYDEN-MARK_WATERINCKX.doc

VASSULA RYDEN-TESTIMONIES

http://ephesians-511.net/docs/VASSULA_RYDEN_TESTIMONIES.doc

VASSULA RYDEN-A CRITIQUE-DIALOGUE CENTRE INTERNATIONAL

http://ephesians-511.net/docs/VASSULA_RYDEN-A_CRITIQUE-DIALOGUE_CENTRE_INTERNATIONAL.doc

VASSULA RYDEN-RICHARD SALBATO

http://ephesians-511.net/docs/VASSULA_RYDEN-RICHARD_SALBATO.doc

Categories: False Mystics

Tags: Vassula Ryden